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Statement
of Ian Martin, Special Representative of the
United
Nations Secretary-General |
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Ian
Martin on the present situation |
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Kathmandu
27 December 2007 (UNMIN)
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Questions
and Answers |
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Transcript
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Surendra
Phuyal, BBC Nepali Service:
What
are your suggestions to the Government regarding the Maoist combatants
who are going to be discharged, based on the UN's experience in other countries?
And the 19,000-plus combatants who have been verified: should they be integrated
in the army, or a separate paramilitary force, or police force? What are
your specific suggestions? |
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Ian
Martin:
First,
so far as the discharge of those excluded by verifications is concerned,
I think that it is very important that that is a well managed process.
And that is exactly what I discussed with Chairman Prachanda and Minister
Poudel, because I think that requires cooperation between the Maoist army,
the Government and the United Nations. I don't just mean UNMIN, because
in theory UNMIN's responsibility ends at the gate of the cantonments, so
to speak, but there are UN agencies, UNICEF so far as minors are concerned,
UNDP, who have made clear that they are willing to assist with the reintegration
of those who are discharged. So I hope we are about to begin a kind of
working level discussion of how exactly that is going to work involving
the three of us, and of course, we will try to bring in to that discussion,
particularly through UNDP, the UN's experience in reintegration elsewhere.
So
far as those verified, who remain in the cantonments, it is not for the
UN to so what their future should be. That has to be a discussion now to
take place within the Special Committee. That's obviously a politically
very controversial matter with very different views in different parts
of the political spectrum, and in the two armies, and it has to be worked
through there. What the UN can offer is, as your question implies, experience
of what has been done in other parts of the world - not to suggest that
there is a model that can be applied, but in so far as that help suggests
to the parties what might be pursued here, they can draw on that experience.
And we have made clear we are willing to make that kind of input if it
is helpful to them once discussions are underway. |
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Mahesh
Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
How
do you assess the changing environment for free and fair election before
22 November and for the new poll date, Chaitra [ed: mid-April 2008]? |
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Ian
Martin:
Well
I think in some parts of the country, the security situation is even more
difficult today than it was then. And we have always said that one of the
key matters that has to be addressed for the Constituent Assembly election
are local security conditions. The most important aspect of the agreement
in that respect in my view, apart from the general commitment to give priority
to law order, is the commitment to form local bodies by agreement. Because,
as we have seen VDC secretaries saying, there is a need for the kind of
political vacuum at local level to be filled. Public security is not just
the matter of policing, it is also a matter of political agreement amongst
local political forces to cooperate with the police in maintaining security.
So, I think that is a very high priority and I hope that the parties are
now able to move rapidly to go to the local level as they have committed
themselves to do, not just to hold the seven joint meetings that they refer
to the agreement but also to establish continuing local bodies to help
manage the situation through to the election and beyond. |
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Mahesh
Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
That
means the situation has not changed? |
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Ian
Martin:
Well,
there certainly hasn't been any fundamental change in the situation since
November. The security situation in some places, as is indicated by the
resignations of VDC secretaries because of local conditions, has continued
to deteriorate. And I think it is too soon to judge how the security arrangements
now being made will affect the situation. But I stress again that I think
it is very much a matter of local political management and I hope that
the political parties will move forward on that now. |
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Gopal
Sharma, Reuters:
What
will happen to the 19,000-plus combatants? Will they be taken in the armed
force of Government or will they find integration somewhere else? And,
what happens to those children, those 2,000-plus who are under 18 years
of age? |
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Ian
Martin:
Well,
again, let's keep clearly distinct those excluded by verification whose
discharge should take place immediately and whose integration should happen
now, and then the question of the future of those confirmed by verification.
So far as the minors are concerned, as I indicated, UNICEF has been ready
for some time with other organisations working with children to assist.
That assistance obviously can include assisting people in returning to
education if that's their wish, or vocational training or other kind of
assistance to reintegrate into their communities.
Now
so far as those confirmed by verification, their future is what the Special
Committee now has to consider. And we know that the Maoists believe that
some at least of them should be reintegrated into the security forces,
but that is exactly what has to be worked out at the political level and
all we have so far on the agreements is a mechanism, a process, to address
it through the Special Committee. As I have said, the UN is not going to
bring a prescription as to what should happen. The most we can offer is
some indication of experience elsewhere. |
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Ayusha
Niroula, Today's Youth Asia:
The
8,640 persons were disqualified. They did not appear for verification,
and were disqualified. So UNMIN not take them into account whatsoever? |
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Ian
Martin:
That
is essentially right. These are people who presented themselves at the
first stage of registration, from January - February 2007 onwards, but
have not appeared at the second stage. And so they are no longer to be
considered as part of the personnel of the Maoist army for the discussions
of the future of the combatants. Now, certainly some of those we believe
were people who are underage, and UNICEF is certainly concerned that they
should also benefit from assistance with reintegration if they are in need
of that in their communities. But they are not now part of the formal process
of considering the future of the Maoist army combatants. |
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Ayusha
Niroula, Today's Youth Asia:
But
you are not sure that they are within the underage group? |
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Ian
Martin:
No,
because they haven't gone through the verification process, we have the
details that were given at the first stage of registration, brief details,
but that's all. |
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Ram
Humagain, Gorkhapatra:
You
have mentioned earlier that there should be a clear cut roadmap for the
Constituent Assembly election. Has the recent 23-point agreement has given
that kind of road-map for the Constituent Assembly election? |
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Ian
Martin:
Yes,
I think in the 23-point agreement there is a roadmap of issues that need
to be addressed. Obviously there is a need for considerably more detail
as to how some of these commitments are going to be taken forward. But
indeed I think in the 23-point agreement one can find many of the key elements
that are necessary to get to a credible Constituent Assembly election.
But as my statement indicates, now they have got to be translated into
reality, and the timelines in the 23point agreement are very strict. There
is a lot that the agreement says which has to be done in one month, in
terms of the setting up of the bodies that will then play an important
role in the implementation of the peace process and progress towards conditions
for the Constituent Assembly election. |
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Manesh
Shrestha, CNN:
My
question is regarding the numbers. You said that the corrected number of
the personnel registered in the first phase is 31,318. Does that include
the 932 you have mentioned in the next paragraph? |
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Ian
Martin:
No,
that's cumulative. The last line is the cumulative total. |
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Hari
Sharan Lamichhane, Radio Nepal:
Mr.
Martin, as you have mentioned that the traditionally marginalised groups
have to be incorporated in the Constituent Assembly. It is not yet clear
what sort of role UNMIN will play to bring those marginalised groups, especially
the Terai issues, to be resolved before we go to the Constituent Assembly.
And, if you look at the time, there is 3-plus months for the election.
How optimistic are you this time? |
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Ian
Martin:
My
reference to dialogue is a reference to dialogue which I assume will take
place between the Government and the seven parties and representatives
of marginalised groups. I am not suggesting a dialogue facilitated by UNMIN
there. I see a recognition, I read in the newspapers everyday now that
that dialogue needs to take place. And indeed I think it needs to take
place as a matter of urgency because the time period to the Constituent
Assembly election is short and because there are announced intentions to
resume agitation or start fresh agitation in parts of the country by marginalised
groups. So, I hope that dialogue will move forward very soon. |
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Hari
Sharan Lamichhane, Radio Nepal:
So
what would be UNMIN's role? |
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Ian
Martin:
All
I am doing is encouraging it. UNMIN would not be directly involved unless
we are asked to be involved. |
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Ujjwal
Prajapati, Kantipur TV:
You
have said that total verified number is 19,602 persons. Could you please
elaborate on this? On the basis of ethnicity, have divided the number of
verified persons? |
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Ian
Martin:
No,
we haven't. Of course, we do have information beyond this. The report we
have presented to the two sides contains a breakdown by the seven principle
divisions, centred on the different main cantonment sites, we have a gender
breakdown, and certainly there is some information there that can be useful
to the Special Committee in considering the future of those verified. And
we also have agreement in principle to carry out a survey of those in the
cantonments, a sample survey to collect additional information to help
planning for reintegration. But there is more information that we can get
from the data if the Special Committee feels that is useful to its deliberations. |
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Mahesh
Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
Regarding
the 8,641 who did not attend the second phase of verification. Do you have
any idea, among them, how many have been involved in the YCL? |
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Ian
Martin:
We
don't know. I mean, frankly, we have a little information as to where those
people are at the moment. Certainly some of the child protection agencies
have come across some of them back in their own communities. It may indeed
be that some are now active in the YCL in their own communities or elsewhere.
But we simply don't have that information. |
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Manesh
Shrestha, CNN:
We
could work that out, but I can't give it to you off the top of my head.
You are right, we began in June, we completed verification in Ilam, there
was indeed then a gap. There were other gaps later on, there was a gap
for Dashain as well, so it would be possible for us to work out for you
for how many days the verification teams have actually been on the job,
as it were, as well as the interval between the beginning of the process
and the end. But I have to put my colleagues to work to get you that information. |
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Ian
Martin:
My
reference to dialogue is a reference to dialogue which I assume will take
place between the Government and the seven parties and representatives
of marginalised groups. I am not suggesting a dialogue facilitated by UNMIN
there. I see a recognition, I read in the newspapers everyday now that
that dialogue needs to take place. And indeed I think it needs to take
place as a matter of urgency because the time period to the Constituent
Assembly election is short and because there are announced intentions to
resume agitation or start fresh agitation in parts of the country by marginalised
groups. So, I hope that dialogue will move forward very soon. |
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Ghanashyam
Ojha, The Kathmandu Post:
I
see the figure, in the first phase there were 31,318 combatants registered
and it seems 8,640 personnel didn't appear. And I have a question. These
8,640 personnel might have left the cantonment. All the cantonments are
under UN supervision. Don't you think that UNMIN is responsible, because
they left the cantonments? So anytime they can leave and anytime they can
come: it shows that, it gives me that kind of impression? That's the first
question.
Next
is: is there any modality UNMIN has presented to the seven parties for
release of those disqualified combatants and to integrate them into society? |
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Ian
Martin:
On
your last question, we haven't put forward a proposal, we are trying to
engage the Maoists and the Government in a serious discussion on those
arrangements. We certainly, UNMIN, in terms how it should happen at the
cantonment end and UNICEF and UNDP, have views as to how this may be best
managed, but that needs to be worked out in dialogue with the Maoists and
the Government. So we will be doing that.
UNMIN
was not mandated to supervise the cantonments. UNMIN was mandated to monitor
the management of arms and armies. And it has always been clear that we
had no capacity to engage in constant supervision of the personnel. We
do engage in 24-hour surveillance of weapons storage, because they are
gathered together in seven sites, Maoist cantonments, and one for the Nepal
Army. The cantonments are not only the seven main sites, but 21 satellite
sites as well, which our arms monitors visit periodically. And they attempt
to monitor there the way in which the commanders are exercising their responsibility
to keep control of the movements of their personnel, including records
as to when people are authorised to go on leave and return. But we have
never had either the mandate or the capacity to supervise the personnel. |
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Santosh
Shah, Today's Youth Asia:
In
that case, Mr. Martin, can we expect more PLA members to disappear in the
next six months? |
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Ian
Martin:
Well
that will depend upon the extent to which their own commanders, of their
own chain of command, ensure that they observe the agreement. |
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Santosh
Shah, Today's Youth Asia:
The
disappearance of the PLA is increasing and so is the activity of the YCL
throughout the country, it is also increasing. It definitely shows a relation
between the two. That does not help the peace process. |
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Ian
Martin:
It
is certainly true that the fundamental commitment was to keep the PLA out
of the Constituent Assembly election. What I hope is that with the end
of verification and with the clear identification of verified personnel
whose future is now to be under proper discussion in the Special Committee,
that the Maoist army will maintain full discipline over those in the cantonments,
and will ensure that they leave the cantonments only in ways that are authorised
by the agreement for leave. And certainly with reduction in numbers and
also with the end of verification, which has taken lot of our resources
of our arms monitors, I hope we can strengthen, too, our monitoring. But
it will still only be strengthened monitoring. The ultimate responsibility
for ensuring that those who should be in the cantonments remain in the
cantonments, is that of the Maoist army and its chain of command. |
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Gopal
Sharma, Reuters:
You
mention that 4,008 are disqualified and almost 3,000 are minors. What is
the criteria? |
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Ian
Martin:
I
am surprised that such a regular attendee of these press briefings should
still be asking that question. We had to apply two criteria, one whether
those involved were over eighteen or under eighteen on the 25th of May
2006, and secondly, whether they were recruited before or after that date.
So the others are those who were assessed to have been over 18 but to have
been recruited after the 25th of May 2006. Now, we also believe that a
significant number of the minors were recruited after the 25 May 2006,
but once someone was assessed to have been a minor it wasn't necessary
to go on and apply the second criterion of date of recruitment as well. |
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Mahesh
Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
4,008
is the total number of disqualified who appeared at the second stage of
verification? |
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Ian
Martin:
That's
correct. That's correct. |
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Manesh
Shrestha, CNN:
Will
you by any chance be making public the questionnaire that was used in the
first stage and second stage of verification? |
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Ian
Martin:
I
don't think there is any reason for us to do that. I mean the interview,
I mean although there was indeed a sort of an agreed basis for the interview,
that was not a constraint upon the verification teams and they went on
asking as many questions, whatever questions as they judged necessary in
the case of individual interviews. So this was not a sort of a strict questionnaire
that contained it. |
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Manesh
Shrestha, CNN:
Because
if I remember clearly the reason for the gap between January/February,
and the long gap between February in June was that the JMCC was still working
out the details of what exactly needed to be asked in verification., wasn't
it? |
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Ian
Martin:
Yes
but even then the discussion in the JMCC was about the general nature of
the questioning, it was not the negotiation of every question, as it were. |
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Ram
Humagain, Radio Nepal:
You
might have given these figures to the Maoist leaders. What is their response
to the numbers? |
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Ian
Martin:
Well,
I have only just in the last 24 hours forwarded the full final verification
figures, although I have certainly indicated what the figures were as soon
as we completed verification in my discussions with both sides. Our report,
so far as I am aware, is being fully accepted. And indeed the verified
figures were subject to being signed-off on by the Maoist commanders, so
I don't expect any challenge to the outcome of our verification. |
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Mahesh
Acharya, Kantipur Radio:
What
do you suggest to the parties, quickly, which they should have to do to
hold elections by Chaitra [ed: mid-April 2008]? |
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Ian
Martin:
Well
I think it's there in the 23-point agreement, so my only answer that really
is, do indeed what they have now committed themselves again to do. And
as I say, I put particular emphasis on what happens at the local level,
as well as what happens at the national level. But I think the main message,
apart from giving you the figures, the main message of my briefing this
morning to leave you with, is that now it is all about implementation.
There is agreement, but much of the agreement is a reiteration of previous
agreements where there was not effective follow through. I think that has
been recognised by the political parties in this agreement and therefore
I very much hope that we are now going to see more effective implementation.
And if the United Nations can assist in that then of course we want to
do so.
Thank
you. |
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Source:
UNMIN , December 2007
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